Modding Frustrations....

[duffstone]

I'm venting, so please don't take any of this seriously...  I just have no other outlet at the moment and venting on SWGEMU's site is a troll fest...

I am an artist. well.. retired... and actually a musician...  Ok, complete thought:  I'm a retired musician.  of sorts...  here's the deal:  a few years back my house got leveled by an F5 tornado, and I had to start over.  Part of that included a budget for rebuilding my music studio, even though I am still retired.  I spent months getting it setup just perfectly for what I needed.  Then...  Inspiration failed.  and I remembered why I retired...

Modding SWG,  or Farming simulator, or anything really is a lot like that.  I spend so much time learning "How it all works", that once that understanding comes into focus, my inspiration fails and I don't know what to do with that new-found knowledge...    

Two years ago that happened to be porting in +14.1 assets into core3.  I wrote up some crappy guides, passed the knowledge on, then hit a wall when I wanted to start building something cool...  l

Six months ago it happened with Farming Simulator 2015, where I successfully created 100% original content (scripts, models, textures, etc..)  along with a huge new map using the real life terrain of my grandfathers farm.  it truly was a fantastic feat, and I'm proud of it.  However, I sat down to play it, and was instantly bored out of my mind...  who actually plays that game?!?   fun as hell to mod it, but to play with those mods?  maybe a week of fun then it's over...

Last night I hit the same wall after re-learning screenplays.  I believe that I can now do almost anything with a screenplay and ignore the .stf files altogether.  that opens up a whole new world for content, quests, and item generation...  And at that very same moment my inspiration failed and I have no idea what to do with that knowledge... :0   so many great idea's, with only blanks on how to actually pull it off.

Ex:  I can build the complete framework for a kick ass jedi chain quest to obtain your robes,  with skill limited stages,  multi-planet travel, with or without combat...  yet I can't think of any dialogue that doesn't seem 100x worse than the SOE jibberish...  and where should the npc's go?  how should it flow?   I'm thinking 14 NPC's evenly spaced outside Theed's spaceport isn't very fun sounding.  But it works....  Man I suck at detail work.

Well that's it for now.  Again, it's just me venting, and I don't really have any issues with SWG or the Emulator, or the modding process, or this site or it's folk.  I'm just venting cause I hate hitting walls that keep me from realizing  goals that I set...

-Duff

 

[Arioch]

I'm venting, so please don't take any of this seriously...  I just have no other outlet at the moment and venting on SWGEMU's site is a troll fest...

I am an artist. well.. retired... and actually a musician...  Ok, complete thought:  I'm a retired musician.  of sorts...  here's the deal:  a few years back my house got leveled by an F5 tornado, and I had to start over.  Part of that included a budget for rebuilding my music studio, even though I am still retired.  I spent months getting it setup just perfectly for what I needed.  Then...  Inspiration failed.  and I remembered why I retired...

Modding SWG,  or Farming simulator, or anything really is a lot like that.  I spend so much time learning "How it all works", that once that understanding comes into focus, my inspiration fails and I don't know what to do with that new-found knowledge...    

Two years ago that happened to be porting in +14.1 assets into core3.  I wrote up some crappy guides, passed the knowledge on, then hit a wall when I wanted to start building something cool...  l

Six months ago it happened with Farming Simulator 2015, where I successfully created 100% original content (scripts, models, textures, etc..)  along with a huge new map using the real life terrain of my grandfathers farm.  it truly was a fantastic feat, and I'm proud of it.  However, I sat down to play it, and was instantly bored out of my mind...  who actually plays that game?!?   fun as hell to mod it, but to play with those mods?  maybe a week of fun then it's over...

Last night I hit the same wall after re-learning screenplays.  I believe that I can now do almost anything with a screenplay and ignore the .stf files altogether.  that opens up a whole new world for content, quests, and item generation...  And at that very same moment my inspiration failed and I have no idea what to do with that knowledge... :0   so many great idea's, with only blanks on how to actually pull it off.

Ex:  I can build the complete framework for a kick ass jedi chain quest to obtain your robes,  with skill limited stages,  multi-planet travel, with or without combat...  yet I can't think of any dialogue that doesn't seem 100x worse than the SOE jibberish...  and where should the npc's go?  how should it flow?   I'm thinking 14 NPC's evenly spaced outside Theed's spaceport isn't very fun sounding.  But it works....  Man I suck at detail work.

Well that's it for now.  Again, it's just me venting, and I don't really have any issues with SWG or the Emulator, or the modding process, or this site or it's folk.  I'm just venting cause I hate hitting walls that keep me from realizing  goals that I set...

-Duff

Sounds to me like you need a partner that you can go back and forth bouncing ideas around with. Its kind of boring when youre the only person mulling it over. Another voice might be what youre looking for.

 

[Lasko]

Duff.... I'm with you on this. I could vent about this n that but bottom line is collaboration.

ROFL, I just deleted a massive vent about secrecy, pulling together, collaboration, documentation, duplicated efforts etc, because i read it back and it may have been a little too controversial this close to Christmas.

Lasko also needs to chill out, take deep breaths and relax lol.

Mate, PM me/start a new thread in server content/join mtg irc, whatever it takes!

I have a zillion ideas about new content and what to make etc a lot of it will never see the light of day if I have to make it on my own, some may have to be implemented on a reworked existing planet until SWB gets released but at least its new and different.

SWG is just too big for one person to learn everything and develop it on one server, The Emu is still focused on its main goal (good to see the feature requests thread), and the new servers dont typically release new content (what little really new content there is), for general use..... Points to the MTG Repo!!!

Collaboration... It's the only way forward. And I dont just mean behind closed doors

 

[Halyn]

Duff.... I'm with you on this. I could vent about this n that but bottom line is collaboration.

ROFL, I just deleted a massive vent about secrecy, pulling together, collaboration, documentation, duplicated efforts etc, because i read it back and it may have been a little too controversial this close to Christmas.

...

Collaboration... It's the only way forward. And I dont just mean behind closed doors

I think you've hit exactly on the problem. I've been working on some cool ideas (well, I think so, anyway), and I've talked to plenty of other people who are doing the same...but no one wants to release that info openly.

Why?

Some of the modders I've talked to have a desire for their feature/content/function to be 100% perfect before they release it. (Not my problem.) Others are working on their project for a certain server and don't want to release it because they want their chosen server to have it as a unique perk. (Guilty as sin.) And it's frustrating as hell, because each of us winds up reinventing the wheel again and again because no one else will share the wheel they lovingly and painfully crafted.

I even think most modders would be more willing to share, but the knowledge that the "big" servers will likely absorb all open-source content while keeping their own code shut tight leaves a bad taste in the collective mouth of the modding community. That might just be me, though.

I'll be the first to admit I'm a complete hypocrite on the subject, because I've asked multiple people for help and have offered only a little in return...even to the point of being angry because I have to recreate things that other people have done before because the knowledge is locked away, when I'm just as guilty of it myself.

 

[duffstone]

I've always released everything I've done, whether it was complete or not. so I don't really have the collaborative issue in that sense of the idea... I do have the issue when it comes to asking for help though. I'm not very good at it.

I might need a partner to put the shine on my work, but I think for the moment I'll finish my current run, then give it to you guys to do what you want with it.

 

[drdax]

Hey folks, just a note of encouragement from a the peanut gallery
I appreciate the sediment of what you posted, your vicorties, triumpths and fustrations. Know that there is a silent majority that appreciates what you do and the sipirt of the sharing you exhibit.
I know this is a source of pride that you contribute knowledge and work product for the SWGEMU "hobby".
I complelty understand that re-inventing the wheel is really frustrating at times when you know you could use and credit other's work. What people don't always understand is by keeping some basic routines / code to them selves, it takes away from you and other working on the next best thing.
I also see the original author's point of view of their creations are meant for them and their community. There are some servers with really unique content meant for that audience and is a source of pride.
I hope the balance swings to more collaborative sharing and credit recognition to expand more features for the overall community.
So, after this long post, please take away from it that we in the peanut gallery appreciate what all do, assistance/pointers given and share here.... and the community repository is brilliant!!
Have a wonderful holiday season!
Dax

 

[Lasko]

Hey folks, just a note of encouragement from a the peanut gallery
I appreciate the sediment of what you posted, your vicorties, triumpths and fustrations.  Know that there is a silent majority that appreciates what you do and the sipirt of the sharing you exhibit.
I know this is a source of pride that you contribute knowledge and work product for the SWGEMU "hobby".
I complelty understand that re-inventing the wheel is really frustrating at times when you know you could use and credit other's work.  What people don't always understand is by keeping some basic routines / code to them selves, it takes away from you and other working on the next best thing.
I also see the original author's point of view of their creations are meant for them and their community.  There are some servers with really unique content meant for that audience and is a source of pride.
I hope the balance swings to more collaborative sharing and credit recognition to expand more features for the overall community.
So, after this long post, please take away from it that we in the peanut gallery appreciate what all do, assistance/pointers given and share here.... and the community repository is brilliant!!
Have a wonderful holiday season!
Dax

On behalf of everyone that has ever contributed anything to the community and the rest of the MTG staff......

THANK YOU!!!!! :heart: :heart: :heart:

For some unknown reason, I seem to want to finish all those incomplete guides I have laying around!

Have a good holiday too

 

[levarrishawk]

I even think most modders would be more willing to share, but the knowledge that the "big" servers will likely absorb all open-source content while keeping their own code shut tight leaves a bad taste in the collective mouth of the modding community. That might just be me, though.

That's usually just an excuse those "big" servers use because their content is pure shit, written on ancient versions of the core that won't even work on the latest build.

Name one piece of truly exceptional content that has appeared on any of the servers?

Kinda hard to isn't it.

 

[duffstone]

Just to play devil's advocate, which I'm good at... JTL?!? Seems like a pretty remarkable private server content that's not being shared... again, just playing devil's advocate.

My personal opinion is that sharing of content is up to the developer, and it should NEVER be ordained or codified. It has been my observations over the years, that if you "require" sharing of idea's and code, it stifles creative development.

I choose to share because I know there are others who are "better" at what I do, and can do more with it than I could alone. But not everyone has that point of view.

-Duff

 

[drdax]

So.. I had to speak up on the parts of this thread that most servers have crummy (my word) content... for me I found Revelation about 6 months ago.  No, I have no vested interest or motives other than a player....

They have and continue to add these cool unique Dungeons and World Events:
- Instanced Mine.. from Easy / Medium / Hard with interesting mix professions to be able to defeat the two or 3 bosses in there.. very cool
- Other new static dungeons with a need for a mixed profession group + strategy
- World Boss Events, some in fixed positions and another random spawn .. along with the same attributes; need of mixed groups + strategy
- a new GCW slant with some new skill branches opening up with specialization skill trees and so forth..

So in a positive note, there are some creative and unique servers out there with great communities.  go explore REV and others and find the one that suits you best.  As for sharing content, I don't have a server or code, so I will leave that to those that do.  Sharing core functionality to help all sounds great, but up to the developer IMHO.

Thanks to all in the SWGEMU community for bringing this game back to life and have a great holiday season!

EDIT: i am with your Duffstone, I am good at JTL.. well a pilot anyway not code

 

[levarrishawk]

Just to play devil's advocate, which I'm good at...  JTL?!?  Seems like a pretty remarkable private server content that's not being shared...  again, just playing devil's advocate.  

My personal opinion is that sharing of content is up to the developer, and it should NEVER be ordained or codified.  It has been my observations over the years, that if you "require" sharing of idea's and code, it stifles creative development.  

I choose to share because I know there are others who are "better" at what I do, and can do more with it than I could alone.  But not everyone has that point of view.

-Duff

If you are referring to the JTL on bloodfin, as proud of it as Heat is, it is far from anything resembling actual quality in my opinion.   I mean, it's just the basic atmospheric flight that has been in SWGEmu since 2011 with some minor changes.

 

[duffstone]

You're not giving them enough credit.  I've been all over SWGEMU's code repository (six ways to Sunday as grandpa put it) and haven't found but a few lines of JTL related code.  They really haven't tried to develop it in any meaningful way yet.

That's what makes any "Other" server offering JTL styled content so unique and deserving of accolades.  Think of it like this:  If You want JTL,  YOU have to write the code, basically from scratch.  there's nothing to "Modify" to make it work, you have to do it all.

I can enable space_naboo, I can even teleport there.  But I can't move around, and I certainly don't have a ship to play with.  Being able to craft a ship, to zone it into a space zone as a real object, use a joystick to fly it around (with or without shields or weapons) is a HUGE thing...

My world for a working space zone and my luxury yacht...

-Duff

 

[Phoenix]

JTL on bloodfin is... nevermind I'll stay out of it.

Anyways. Yea I can agree on a loss of focus, interest, and ideas. I mean I have a billion ideas and I work on way too many projects at once, including stuff for other people. It's a huge stress factor, but I feel Halyn was referring to me when he said that people keep stuff to themselves and don't release them until they are perfect (me with species), and I feel like partnering is definitely a lot less stressful. lol Too many ideas. Not enough time/hands!

 

[duffstone]

I've never played Bloodfin's JTL. Or any JTL since SOE shut the doors. But I can tell you, from what I've seen of the current core, to get a ship into space is remarkable. Shitty or otherwise...

Enough of that though.

 

[drdax]

"My world for a working space zone and my luxury yacht... " by Duffstone...

AMEN BROTHER! Caps intended I so can't wait for some framework to be started so we can see and possibly contribute to JTL... Let's see, where is my booster calibration tool, I can't find it..