Thread Prefixes - Your Suggestions

[DavinFelth]

Greetings!

I noticed today, that we have two prefixes in this forum (Client and Mod), and looking at them I realised that perhaps there should be a bit more detail considering that almost everything released in here will be a Mod.

So what are your suggestions for the prefixes we might need? One I've thought of is 'Graphical' (or 'Graphics' or even 'Texture'?) any suggestions will most likely be used (depending on what they are of course )

 

[Kayliaah]

Personally I'm fine with the prefixes we currently have, but that's because I'm not afraid to open every new thread to read them, and I know some people might get scared when there isn't enough information in the title.

To be honest I have no idea myself, so I'll let others give their suggestions.

 

[Tonberry]

I agree with Kay, I think what we have is fine. One exception I'd say would be a beta prefix for in the beta section, just for the sake of keeping things consistent.

 

[MechWarrior001]

[Client]
[Server]
[UI]
[Animation]
[Sprite]
[Particle]
[Weather]
[Texture]
[Sound]
[Terrain]
[Atmosphere]
[Model]

 

[Kayliaah]

Nice one Mech, though MtG is more about modding the client, at least for the moment, and besides SWGEmu have their own Client Dev team for Suncrusher.

Since most particles use textures, so does weather (I'm talking about graphical enhancement not server side coding like Anakis did), terrain, and part of the UI, I don't know.

I think there should be a simple rule from now on, to detail your thread titles as much as you can without it being too long.

Anyway it's definitely something to work on.

 

[DavinFelth]

Nice one Mech, though MtG is more about modding the client, at least for the moment, and besides SWGEmu have their own Client Dev team for Suncrusher.

Since most particles use textures, so does weather (I'm talking about graphical enhancement not server side coding like Anakis did), terrain, and part of the UI, I don't know.

I think there should be a simple rule from now on, to detail your thread titles as much as you can without it being too long.

Anyway it's definitely something to work on.

Hmm, I'm not so sure I agree. 'Modding the Galaxy' is going to include creating additional content for servers to use, implementing NGE items (like the good decorations, housing) etc. some of which will require server side editing which can be done through patching with diff's etc. Also as far as I know the SWGEmu Client dev team consists of Tonberry and Sytner, two very capable people, though I'm sure as there's so few of them they could use some help, especially considering Sytner is pretty much exclusively developing his world building tool (and there was talk of other things while I was there but I think those idea's have changed now).

EDIT: Noticed you said 'at least for the moment'

I'm going to have a think about the thread prefixes and perhaps put in a couple of the ones suggested while bearing in mind what you said about how many of them use textures. They are always optional and if someone prefers to use only the ones we have now, they can.

One important point I've just remembered though is that I've been testing and modifying an upload/download system for the site where people can upload their mods (and still make a post about it here, or perhaps I will make that automatic...) with images and descriptions etc. etc. much like the old swgemumods site used to have and so there will need to perhaps be some subcategories under the 'Mods' category, which these prefixes will probably help determine

 

[Kayliaah]

Yeah sorry, I should've put "at least for the moment" in italic and bold.
For the moment because right now everybody is focusing on finishing the server first, so us folks at MtG try to keep ourselves busy with pure client side mods, I know we would all love to see the game finished so that we can enhance it, sadly hoping doesn't make it go any faster.

I don't doubt MtG will evolve after and probably before 1.0, to keep the community(ies) interested.


Good idea about the upload/download system, we can never get enough working links, I remember several old mods that could've used a couple thousand mirrors so that they would never die.

Yeah more prefixes won't hurt, people can choose which one fits better their mods, you can never have too much freedom.

 

[Tonberry]

I agree with what Kay said. I hope we don't see any server-side stuff on here. No problems with custom models and other cool client tweaks once/ if the tools are available, but anything more I'm not in support of. New content and anything server side is up to the individual server communities.

Oh and Davin, for the record there are a few more client folk now. Myself, Sytner and Kyle kinda reformatted the department a little.

Anyway, [Particle], [Texture] etc sound good and specific, except there'll be a lot of mods which do multiple things so some prefix to justify a package or mass conversion would be needed as well, if those were used. Personally I don't think they should be over done.

 

[DavinFelth]

I agree with what Kay said. I hope we don't see any server-side stuff on here. No problems with custom models and other cool client tweaks once/ if the tools are available, but anything more I'm not in support of. New content and anything server side is up to the individual server communities.

Oh and Davin, for the record there are a few more client folk now. Myself, Sytner and Kyle kinda reformatted the department a little.

Anyway, [Particle], [Texture] etc sound good and specific, except there'll be a lot of mods which do multiple things so some prefix to justify a package or mass conversion would be needed as well, if those were used. Personally I don't think they should be over done.

Yes and not all those server communities have access to people with knowledge of the client and server to build these tweaks themselves

Ah, well thanks for involving me

I agree they shouldn't be overdone, I don't want as many as in mech's post but just a couple more to make them more specific for those that want to

 

[Tonberry]

Yes and not all those server communities have access to people with knowledge of the client and server to build these tweaks themselves

Not our problem. The people who are serious about hosting a community already have some developers on board, just like they have to be serious about finances. Besides, SunCrusher will end up housing most players and we have a dozen developers on board already and plenty artists too.

I have no doubt someone could come along, rip part of a client modification and turn it into a piece of server side content for their server, like a new item or something. But we want each community to make their own stuff, have their own unique thing to offer, not just host a random directory of server additions any noob to download. Those planning their own community need to work for it and be serious and organised about it, instead of relying on everything being done for them.

Oh, and linking directly into this, if I recall there will be certain requirements in place for a server community to be listed in LPE2, so those without access to these skills and services aren't going to get the publicity anyway. Basically it'll filter out all those who aren't fit to host a proper server, after all running an MMO takes a lot of time, organisation, finances and commitment. And most importantly, its not something which can be done solo.

Ah, well thanks for involving me

Np We'll fill you in as soon as you have the time to get involved again. Quite a lot has happened since you were last around.

I agree they shouldn't be overdone, I don't want as many as in mech's post but just a couple more to make them more specific for those that want to

Yeah that's how I feel. Its fitting them all into a few tags which is the hard part... Hmm.

 

[MechWarrior001]

But we want each community to make their own stuff, have their own unique thing to offer, not just host a random directory of server additions any noob to download. Those planning their own community need to work for it and be serious and organised about it, instead of relying on everything being done for them.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand what your saying. Now I'm not saying that both client and server should have equal priority, as last time I checked this is mostly a client modding forum; but in my opinion I don't think the users of this forum, or this forum in general, should limit themselves or itself to just client-side graphical mods, respectively. I was thinking of perhaps creating a "Canonical Extension Pack" for when the Emu is completed. The CEP would contain new items and objects that were not present in the live game before the CU patch, all with canonically correct statistics. And as opposed to being a mod, perhaps the CEP could be made a Emu Server Standard. I know Tonberry has mentioned he doesn't necesarilly like the idea of having a Cloud-based addon repository for the Emu, but if it done right it might not be that bad of a idea.

 

[Tonberry]

But we want each community to make their own stuff, have their own unique thing to offer, not just host a random directory of server additions any noob to download. Those planning their own community need to work for it and be serious and organised about it, instead of relying on everything being done for them.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand what your saying. Now I'm not saying that both client and server should have equal priority, as last time I checked this is mostly a client modding forum; but in my opinion I don't think the users of this forum, or this forum in general, should limit themselves or itself to just client-side graphical mods, respectively. I was thinking of perhaps creating a "Canonical Extension Pack" for when the Emu is completed. The CEP would contain new items and objects that were not present in the live game before the CU patch, all with canonically correct statistics. And as opposed to being a mod, perhaps the CEP could be made a Emu Server Standard. I know Tonberry has mentioned he doesn't necesarilly like the idea of having a Cloud-based addon repository for the Emu, but if it done right it might not be that bad of a idea.

Traditionally the term 'mod' applies to the client-side of games, in most circumstances, occasionally an FPS or RTS or what have you will come up with a multiplayer 'mod' which has some minor server side to it, but still mostly client based. Supporting server-side additions would make this a development forum. I don't think "Develop The Galaxy" sounds too good.

Also you seem to think everything client side is graphics related. It isn't, and to make a package like you suggest, there'd be much more client-side work than server side, and I'm not just talking about the visuals.

 

[DavinFelth]

Not our problem. The people who are serious about hosting a community already have some developers on board, just like they have to be serious about finances. Besides, SunCrusher will end up housing most players and we have a dozen developers on board already and plenty artists too.

I have no doubt someone could come along, rip part of a client modification and turn it into a piece of server side content for their server, like a new item or something. But we want each community to make their own stuff, have their own unique thing to offer, not just host a random directory of server additions any noob to download. Those planning their own community need to work for it and be serious and organised about it, instead of relying on everything being done for them.

I hardly think that downloading an addition for their server is "everything being done for them" as you mention below, running an MMO requires much more than just adding content to it.

The fact is that it will be impossible to stop people making server additions (like brand new items, quests, even planets) and releasing them freelance and there will be nothing to stop server administrators including those additions on their servers and hey, if they like the addition enough maybe they will convince that developer to make things solely for them. I'm not prepared to ban that from this site or anything like that because if we don't allow it, someone will make a site that does

Why should people be punished for picking a server just because there are no developers willing to work on new content exclusively for that server? There aren't THAT many people with the knowledge required to do this.

Of course there is also the fact that adding something to the server is not as simple as dropping stuff in a directory as it is with client mods, a competent server admin will make sure the patch on the code is successful, has not modified anything it shouldn't have and will test the new code thoroughly before adding it to their main server. Add to this the fact that after a certain amount of time every server's codebase will be different and the complications are greater and to complicate things more there is client patching to deal with, making sure a client has the patch before logging in, before that making sure that the new client files are not bugged in any way, correct me if I'm wrong but it will be the same as, if not trickier than adding a patch released from SWGEmu to fix a bug.

Oh, and linking directly into this, if I recall there will be certain requirements in place for a server community to be listed in LPE2, so those without access to these skills and services aren't going to get the publicity anyway. Basically it'll filter out all those who aren't fit to host a proper server, after all running an MMO takes a lot of time, organisation, finances and commitment. And most importantly, its not something which can be done solo.

Why not let the player decide which server they want to play on? How is it up to SWGEmu to decide who is 'worthy' of publicity? If SWGEmu was not open source would a similar system be used to filter out who is 'worthy' to have access to the server software? And I assume LPE2 is going to keep separate manifests for each server it does allow onto it? To ensure everyone can have separate client files? And if people want to play on more than one server you have given LPE2 the capability to give each server its own folder within the SWG directory that contains its own patch files?

Np We'll fill you in as soon as you have the time to get involved again. Quite a lot has happened since you were last around.

I've been thinking I'd like to get involved again but I think I'm going to wait until August sometime, obviously after working on the SWGEmu staff in some capacity since about 2006/7 I'm bound to have a bit of burnout (especially since there was nothing going on there while I was there... typical ) so after some time off I'm slowly getting back into things again, starting with this site and soon (hopefully) with SWGEmu... that is of course assuming kyle will let me come back

 

[Tonberry]

I'm not going to do another fancy quote post lol, CBA!

Anyway you've taken a lot of my previous post in the wrong context. Of course adding content can't be stopped and is encouraged. My main point is if its all shared then no server is going to have their own unique attraction.

As for filtering people out. Its open source, sure any noob is free to download and compile a server and add whatever they please. (which if you look at recent commits to the OR is a lot easier now, E.G. add one line to a script to enable a new planet as long as its in the TRE's etc.) Other than adding new game systems which would obviously require a lot of server-side stuff, most other additions for example items, planets, vehicles etc can all be done with scripts in a few minutes. It actually takes longer to prepare the client-side files.

Anyway my point there wasn't to disallow people from using servers or discourage them, all I'm saying is if they dont have the skills, team, finances or commitment to host a community then they should do the same as everyone else in that boat, choose one of the many communities that are out there and settle down. Obviously they'll no doubt visit multiple servers before settling, and they'll decide according to whats on that server. If we have a cloud with content and freebies then they're all going to feel the same, and in that case everyone might as well flock to one place. In short, those hosting a server have to work to make it outstanding any unique.

To be honest when it comes to future content, one coder and one client developer or modding veteran would suffice for the average community to come up with their own additions. The real need is artists. If someone puts the time in to get a server up, pay for a site and dedicated box then I have to assume they either know, or can track down a few people with the skills to constitute this small team. But like I said artists are the bigger issue.

Offering advice is fine or even a list of modders willing to work with a community, but hosting a bank of freebies eliminates the challenge and fun for those building a community.

As for offering server-side stuff and support on here, I'm not even going to go into that anymore lol, I already made my point on that in the last post and it wont change, unless the site changes name to SWGEmu.com.

Oh and no worries about getting back on board Davin, we want as many as we can get. If all the current devs commit, which as far as I'm aware most of them have, and then if you come back that puts us on 13 developers I believe, along with 10 or so artists I've recruited. This stuff hasn't even been revealed yet and we already have a team good enough to put SOE to shame.

 

[DavinFelth]

Going to try not to do a long winded reply because I CBA either All I'm going to say on the matter of the 'cloud' is in reply to this:

If we have a cloud with content and freebies then they're all going to feel the same, and in that case everyone might as well flock to one place. In short, those hosting a server have to work to make it outstanding any unique.

This is very true. But say someone who isn't a developer for any one server has an awesome idea that they want to work on for the game and the ability to do so, sure they could try and pitch it to a particular server but wouldn't it be awesome if that person could work on that addition and release it here with the potential that it could be used on multiple servers and enjoyed by a huge number of people playing on those servers?

The point I really wanted to make in reply to the above though is that even if people release additions to a 'cloud' servers will still have to work to make themselves unique, if they want to stay ahead of the competition then yes, they will have a team that can make their own custom additions to the server and people will be more drawn to that server because it is more unique and capable. In short, even with additions being released for use on all servers, they still have to work to make themselves unique and special from the other servers that have that addition and so it really changes nothing in that regard.

Oh and no worries about getting back on board Davin, we want as many as we can get. If all the current devs commit, which as far as I'm aware most of them have, and then if you come back that puts us on 13 developers I believe, along with 10 or so artists I've recruited. This stuff hasn't even been revealed yet and we already have a team good enough to put SOE to shame.

That sounds awesome, as you said finding quality artists is the hardest part, it's nice to see that the client devs aren't going to be regarded as the hick cousins of the server devs anymore I'm going to have to dig out my old document of ideas for SC xD

 

[MechWarrior001]

If we have a cloud with content and freebies then they're all going to feel the same, and in that case everyone might as well flock to one place. In short, those hosting a server have to work to make it outstanding any unique.

After reading this I sparked a potentially interesting idea for server layout and networking; however, I'm not sure if it's appropriate for the current thread so if anyone is interested in hearing send me a PM.

 

[Tonberry]

Well I still don't really agree on these views. And in terms of sharing certain achievements across multiple servers, I doubt you'll see that happen regardless. SunCrusher, Darjani, any of the bigger communities will be keeping their source as concealed as possible, just like Liberators current code isn't openly available.