Client 2.0

[n00854180t]

Any update on this? I'd love to contribute (engine/game programmer).

 

[Gulkia]

Styner, I love your work. Imagine having something like this for the sun-crusher release! It would breath new life into a 13 year old game. Also, would it be possible to create a client that could support modern VR devices?

 

[Shempoo]

@Gulkia from what I understand, this is a pipe-dream, let alone a VR support. Plus, is it enjoyable to play 3rd person games in VR?

 

[Sytner]

@Gulkia from what I understand, this is a pipe-dream, let alone a VR support. Plus, is it enjoyable to play 3rd person games in VR?

Actually it has VR support already - I wanted to learn the APIs and walk around in SWG.

However, making a game out of this is definitely a pipe dream - I am barely finding enough time to work on editors at the moment never mind adding networking, gameplay and so on. What might be viable is to hook the render functions in the current client and reimplement them...

 

[Halyn]

You're a tease.

 

[Gulkia]

@Gulkia from what I understand, this is a pipe-dream, let alone a VR support. Plus, is it enjoyable to play 3rd person games in VR?

Actually it has VR support already - I wanted to learn the APIs and walk around in SWG.

However, making a game out of this is definitely a pipe dream - I am barely finding enough time to work on editors at the moment never mind adding networking, gameplay and so on. What might be viable is to hook the render functions in the current client and reimplement them...

Yay!

 

[Shempoo]

I don't know if you saw this, I just follow different SWG news recently.

This uses the Direct3D classes from Wine (used to run Windows apps on Linux) to replace SWG's reliance on DirectX with OpenGL calls.
For some people and graphics cards, this equates to better frame rates. The only caveat is that player volumetric shadows may or may not work.

http://adolfintel.com/?p=wined3d/index.frag

To use, follow the instructions in the readme.
To uninstall, delete the 3 dll files from your SWG directory.

 

[Zeridian]

What is this written in? C++? C#? Will you ever release the source if you don't think you can finish it? Hooking in Havok 2014 might not be that hard. Hardest part would be the networking. I also have experience with creating collisions for Havok, since I know all the existing models will need new collisions for proper physics.

This is a humongous tease. I've been thinking for a long time about what it would take to build a custom UE4 client for Core3.

 

[Kaesemeister]

@Shempoo well I tried this and it seems to work well even though my screen appears to be "bleached" a little bit for a few hours after launching the game, even when I finish playing. Don't know if this is case happens to me only because of using different graphic enhancement mods but whatever.

Got me thinking though, wouldn't a wrapper with the ability to intercept drawing calls from the API (like for example this one: https://gist.github.com/shaunlebron/3854bf4eec5bec297907) be able to translate these calls into d3d11?​

I'm really just getting into this so I'm not sure what's possible and what not but similar efforts came to fruition in many other games like Halo Open Sauce and Gothic2(github), so it doesn't look all that off-putting.​

I'm interested in what you guys think about this.​

 

[Sytner]

What is this written in? C++? C#? Will you ever release the source if you don't think you can finish it? Hooking in Havok 2014 might not be that hard. Hardest part would be the networking. I also have experience with creating collisions for Havok, since I know all the existing models will need new collisions for proper physics.

This is a humongous tease. I've been thinking for a long time about what it would take to build a custom UE4 client for Core3.

Well, again, this was more of a 'what if' post rather than an actual expectation to ever finish a client 2.0 project. The editor does have features beyond what is required for world editing - a standalone game mode, PhysX physics (might replace this with Bullet), navigation via recast/detour, audio and lua scripting. It is written in c++ (and lua), uses imgui as a gui framework and bgfx as the renderering backend (so I get DX11/12+OGL/Vulkan support more or less free). I'm going to reveal some more of this soon - it does seem *somewhat* viable to make a game from - I just don't think it's worthwhile.

Regarding releasing the source - maybe at some point, but probably not.

As mentioned by the poster above, intercepting the draw calls and translating them to DX11 is a more realistic project than reimplementing all the game logic, UI, networking etc required to recreate the SWG client. I would question how much just switching to DX11 will actually gain us though - sure the performance might be a little better and we have access to newer shader features but it's still driven by the same data from the client which is quite limiting.

 

[Zeridian]

What is this written in? C++? C#? Will you ever release the source if you don't think you can finish it? Hooking in Havok 2014 might not be that hard. Hardest part would be the networking. I also have experience with creating collisions for Havok, since I know all the existing models will need new collisions for proper physics.

This is a humongous tease. I've been thinking for a long time about what it would take to build a custom UE4 client for Core3.

Well, again, this was more of a 'what if' post rather than an actual expectation to ever finish a client 2.0 project. The editor does have features beyond what is required for world editing - a standalone game mode, PhysX physics (might replace this with Bullet), navigation via recast/detour, audio and lua scripting. It is written in c++ (and lua), uses imgui as a gui framework and bgfx as the renderering backend (so I get DX11/12+OGL/Vulkan support more or less free). I'm going to reveal some more of this soon - it does seem *somewhat* viable to make a game from - I just don't think it's worthwhile.

Regarding releasing the source - maybe at some point, but probably not.

As mentioned by the poster above, intercepting the draw calls and translating them to DX11 is a more realistic project than reimplementing all the game logic, UI, networking etc required to recreate the SWG client. I would question how much just switching to DX11 will actually gain us though - sure the performance might be a little better and we have access to newer shader features but it's still driven by the same data from the client which is quite limiting.

I'd argue every one of those things would be worthwhile to many many fans out there, and especially content creators. Many people even speculate what it would be like to re-create the client in UE4, because there is a big yearning to modernize the game as well as the content creation pipeline. Lot's of discussion of this stuff over on the Andromeda server...

Well whatever happens, thanks for the tease? lol

 

[Sytner]

What is this written in? C++? C#? Will you ever release the source if you don't think you can finish it? Hooking in Havok 2014 might not be that hard. Hardest part would be the networking. I also have experience with creating collisions for Havok, since I know all the existing models will need new collisions for proper physics.

This is a humongous tease. I've been thinking for a long time about what it would take to build a custom UE4 client for Core3.

Well, again, this was more of a 'what if' post rather than an actual expectation to ever finish a client 2.0 project. The editor does have features beyond what is required for world editing - a standalone game mode, PhysX physics (might replace this with Bullet), navigation via recast/detour, audio and lua scripting. It is written in c++ (and lua), uses imgui as a gui framework and bgfx as the renderering backend (so I get DX11/12+OGL/Vulkan support more or less free). I'm going to reveal some more of this soon - it does seem *somewhat* viable to make a game from - I just don't think it's worthwhile.

Regarding releasing the source - maybe at some point, but probably not.

As mentioned by the poster above, intercepting the draw calls and translating them to DX11 is a more realistic project than reimplementing all the game logic, UI, networking etc required to recreate the SWG client. I would question how much just switching to DX11 will actually gain us though - sure the performance might be a little better and we have access to newer shader features but it's still driven by the same data from the client which is quite limiting.

I'd argue every one of those things would be worthwhile to many many fans out there, and especially content creators. Many people even speculate what it would be like to re-create the client in UE4, because there is a big yearning to modernize the game as well as the content creation pipeline. Lot's of discussion of this stuff over on the Andromeda server...

Well whatever happens, thanks for the tease? lol

Well it's not entirely a tease, you'll be able to play with it but as an editor rather than a game - there is a limit to what one guy can do in his spare time! It's all scriptable so you can make a game out of it yourself if you really want .

Doing a remake in UE4 or similar would be cool. It's a project I would have been interested in working on but there isn't enough interest in SWG generally for me to consider it any more. Porting/loading the assets would be reasonably straightforward at least - I can't comment on the rest.

 

[Zeridian]

What is this written in? C++? C#? Will you ever release the source if you don't think you can finish it? Hooking in Havok 2014 might not be that hard. Hardest part would be the networking. I also have experience with creating collisions for Havok, since I know all the existing models will need new collisions for proper physics.

This is a humongous tease. I've been thinking for a long time about what it would take to build a custom UE4 client for Core3.

Well, again, this was more of a 'what if' post rather than an actual expectation to ever finish a client 2.0 project. The editor does have features beyond what is required for world editing - a standalone game mode, PhysX physics (might replace this with Bullet), navigation via recast/detour, audio and lua scripting. It is written in c++ (and lua), uses imgui as a gui framework and bgfx as the renderering backend (so I get DX11/12+OGL/Vulkan support more or less free). I'm going to reveal some more of this soon - it does seem *somewhat* viable to make a game from - I just don't think it's worthwhile.

Regarding releasing the source - maybe at some point, but probably not.

As mentioned by the poster above, intercepting the draw calls and translating them to DX11 is a more realistic project than reimplementing all the game logic, UI, networking etc required to recreate the SWG client. I would question how much just switching to DX11 will actually gain us though - sure the performance might be a little better and we have access to newer shader features but it's still driven by the same data from the client which is quite limiting.

I'd argue every one of those things would be worthwhile to many many fans out there, and especially content creators. Many people even speculate what it would be like to re-create the client in UE4, because there is a big yearning to modernize the game as well as the content creation pipeline. Lot's of discussion of this stuff over on the Andromeda server...

Well whatever happens, thanks for the tease? lol

Well it's not entirely a tease, you'll be able to play with it but as an editor rather than a game - there is a limit to what one guy can do in his spare time! It's all scriptable so you can make a game out of it yourself if you really want .

Doing a remake in UE4 or similar would be cool. It's a project I would have been interested in working on but there isn't enough interest in SWG generally for me to consider it any more. Porting/loading the assets would be reasonably straightforward at least - I can't comment on the rest.

:heart:

That'll be cool, and thanks very much for that. It is -way- more than any one person could expect to take on.
Just some thoughts...

I think part of that general lack of interest comes from the significantly aged engine. To capture younger minds today, it takes more than great gameplay unfortunately (and I say this as a 23 year old). Much of it comes from presentation on the front end too, like the website. Not only is SWG aging, but currently the main project itself has no interest in improving the presentation or appeal to draw in new bloods. That is okay of course, because they are focusing on finishing the server code.

You'll notice though, in just about every other community where a modern MMO is being made, there is a large spike in conversation and interest when SWG is mentioned. From Ashes of Creation to Star Citizen. The reason is the demand is still there, but the negatives from the age of the game are probably turning people off or they have never heard of swgemu. There are plenty of other reasons too, but by and large I think the lowering interest is due to PR, presentation, and game/project fatigue. SWG needs something to revitalize it or we will all probably watch it fade into history, and if we accept that fate for it, why not abandon it now

Just my 2 cents

P.S. if Stalker can get 50 different community iterations ranging from DX9 to DX12 and create huge expansions of the world, why can't we as a community drive some buzz for galaxies?

 

[HeadClot]

Hey Sytner,
Got a few questions about this -

First off I am very new to the forums. So forgive me if I ask something that has been asked already.

1. You mentioned in a previous post that this will be used more of an editor opposed to a client. Could you elaborate on this? What will the editor be able to do?
2. Will the Client 2.0 project be extendable via a Plugin system of some sorts?
3. Have you considered a patreon to help speed up development of this project?
4. Are you looking for help on this?

 

[Sytner]

Hey Sytner,
Got a few questions about this -

First off I am very new to the forums. So forgive me if I ask something that has been asked already.

1.  You mentioned in a previous post that this will be used more of an editor opposed to a client. Could you elaborate on this? What will the editor be able to do?
2. Will the Client 2.0 project be extendable via a Plugin system of some sorts?
3. Have you considered a patreon to help speed up development of this project?
4. Are you looking for help on this?

Hey,

1) Initial focus is terrain and snapshots/buildouts. There are some old videos around of it like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yffBpoDuOrY
2) Yes, fully scriptable via lua and C# and it has a nice native plugin system if I ever release the source.
3) No - there's about 10 people left on the planet that care about this so I doubt it'd make any meaningful difference to the time I could spend on it.
4) There's occasionally bits people can help with but not much at the moment.

 

[Okedo]

I care enough to 1000 people on this project! I must have this... Please

Okedo

Hey Sytner,
Got a few questions about this -

First off I am very new to the forums. So forgive me if I ask something that has been asked already.

1.  You mentioned in a previous post that this will be used more of an editor opposed to a client. Could you elaborate on this? What will the editor be able to do?
2. Will the Client 2.0 project be extendable via a Plugin system of some sorts?
3. Have you considered a patreon to help speed up development of this project?
4. Are you looking for help on this?

Hey,

1) Initial focus is terrain and snapshots/buildouts. There are some old videos around of it like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yffBpoDuOrY
2) Yes, fully scriptable via lua and C# and it has a nice native plugin system if I ever release the source.
3) No - there's about 10 people left on the planet that care about this so I doubt it'd make any meaningful difference to the time I could spend on it.
4) There's occasionally bits people can help with but not much at the moment.