Force Awakens - Yay or Nay?

Yay or Nay?


  • Total voters
    16

Tonberry

Inactive Staff
Aug 30, 2010
372
0
0
www.modthegalaxy.com
#1
I figured since I'm not lurking anymore I'd shame you all by creating the thread you all should've made already.

So yeah... Shame on you!

Anyway what did everyone think? I went in not expecting much as I simply don't understand why JJ is so revered like a modern Spielberg yet he's only really known for star trek which wasn't so great and Lost. And yeah... We all know how Lost turned out.

Personally I think when lucas said he wanted to mimic the originals he did, it just doesn't slap you in the face. JJ and the fans think he didn't so he had his own shot and ended up just remaking episode 4 with more plot holes. Also I counted 3 lense flares! God damn it JJ.

Anyway I guess that sums it up without going into full rant mode. At least people won't complain about the prequels just because its cool anymore. I hope.
 

Oowoon

New Member
Dec 30, 2010
2
0
1
#2
I thought it was good, I was a little dissatisfied with it at the first watch, but after a second watch, I loved it on its own merits.

I agree that it's fairly similar to ANH, but that's just due to the SW formula. Pretty much every Star Wars movie had some similarity in structure, Like how every Star Wars movie had a lightsaber fight around the latter half of the third act.

And I honestly do believethat JJ is a good director in a lot of ways. Don't get me wrong, George Lucas wasn't bad, but he wasn't exactly the best at the little things in comparison to his spectacular talent for world-building. In technique and direction, though, JJ is quite talented. Most people just don't give him a chance because of the lens flare and his handling of Into Darkness. I'd arguably say he's a better director than Lucas, at least. George might be a better writer, but having Kasdan probably helped JJ a lot.

I thought Starkiller base was a bit far, admittingly, but saying that it basically rips off ANH might be a bit unfair. I mean, the concept of it was cool, at least, in comparison to the 3(+) laughable attempts at Superweapons in the "Legends" timeline. I feel like people are only saying that because it does actually take the time to make nods to it, but it didn't feel as shoehorned or blatant like with Khan in Into Darkness.

As far as with the plot holes, there's a difference between plotholes and information that can be elaborated on later. (And this worked, because I want to see VIII right now)

And no, despite the shortcomings of TFA, I'll gladly take a shoehorned Superweapon over the painfully stilted dialogue and awkward moments of the prequels. Contrary to the performance generally seen in the prequels, the dialogue, acting, and chemistry between the cast members felt remarkably better. And ultimately, that's JJ's greatest strength over George Lucas.

And come on, the visuals were really good, at least.

That's just my opinion, though.
 

draychen

New Member
Jan 7, 2016
38
0
0
#5
I thought it was pretty damned good. Without spoilers; It follows the same formula as the original trilogy. In fact, at many points, you can cut, chop and paste the OT together and it'd play nearly the same as TFA. There were some disappointing aspects to it (much like Ultron in Age of Ultron) where you lose the fear of some characters, and he just becomes a baby with super powers. Really detracted from the impact of said character. Other than that; The acting a cut above any other Star Wars movie, and it was beautifully shot. The cinematography was excellent. In my opinion: There are now three amazing Star Wars flicks (#1 Empire, #2 are tied for Hope and Awakens).
 

drdax

New Member
Jun 11, 2015
132
0
0
#6
My wife liked it, which is amazing as she is pretty movie savy yet she hates SW... for me it harkened back to the oringal, just enough plot, lots of action and a cruel twist by the Dark Side!
 

Andarai

New Member
Mar 24, 2013
28
0
1
#7
For me its ok but ... no new espectacular sounds, fx are just normal i mean in every new sw film there nice new sounds and amazing special effects, we are at 2016... this film lacks on all of this. As a sw fan i like the film yeah. But i thought would be more 2016 ish film rather than back to 90's... yeah films are not based on sound effects or fx... but we are talking about SW...
 
Jan 19, 2016
96
2
6
27
#8
I'm new to ModtheGalaxy, so hello  :)

I thought the movie wasn't up to snuff for several reasons.

1. No scale - a resistance battle consisting of a handful of X-wings is hardly on the scale of Star Wars, the real life locations used as foreign "planets" was bad in that it didn't encapsulate the feel of a large and expansive universe.
2. Useless plot progression - scene with ball monsters had no purpose in film.
3. Bad dialogue for original cast, the dialogue between Leia and Solo is terrible.
4. Cheesy repetitive villains (Kylo and Snoke makes a bad combo and we've seen that mix before between vulnerable but manipulative/encompassing Sith Lord with conflicted Apprentice)
5. The whole "I will finished what Darth Vader started" - What did Vader start? He brought balance to the force as the "chosen one", he created a galaxy with 2 Jedi and 2 Sith which ended up with 1 Jedi (Luke) who was a "grey" Jedi meaning he seemed to hold a balance between Dark and Light. He certainly didn't start anything either, he was Palpatine's goon, if anyone was starting something is was good old Palps.
6. Kylo Ren is an awful character and he simple states his emotions in the film rather than demonstrating through effective dialogue. There was more emotion and conflicted feeling felt in the blank face mask of Darth Vader in Episode VI than Kylo could ever portray.




There was quite a few things like this that didn't wow me; because of this I certainly like Episode I way more than VII. Can't use Jar Jar as a bash reason for not liking Ep. I either; Jar Jar, and the Gungans were no different than the comic relief of BB8 or the Ewoks - really the Ewoks and BB8 are much worse in my opinion with regards to goofiness.
 

Tonberry

Inactive Staff
Aug 30, 2010
372
0
0
www.modthegalaxy.com
#10
Shame on you Valky.

Honestly I think plotholes is completely justifiable. I haven't read the novelization but I hear it makes a lot of the things in the movies seem even worse. For example it states the empire is under trade restrictions and being monitored heavily by the new republic. Considering that why the hell would they turn a blind eye to them building a super weapon capable of destroying multiple planets at the same time lol? Also under those conditions why does the empire seem to have gotten much more tech'd up compared to the jump from the prequels to the originals in which you could argue in some ways they got lower tech.

I pretty much agree with all of your points Himalayas. The way the original characters interacted with each other was laughable. I felt like they didn't read the script back even once. There is a particular moment (trying not to post any clear spoilers) after a certain dramatic demise where a certain furball is completely ignored in favor of the new cast getting some emotional screen time which made no sense. I can't speak for Snoke, as if he does turn out to be Plagueis it could save the next film for me, but Kylo was by far the weakest and most pathetically developed villain in the franchise. The focus on Vader's deeds scares me about the future. I'm in favor of the expanded universe but clone palpy was a bad call even in the EU, I hope we aren't gonna see an anakin clone. For the locations they could have at least used new planets not obvious clones of  tatooine, hoth and yavin. The forest one may have actually been an area on Yavin 4 but I wasn't really paying attention anymore at that point so I'm guessing it was just another clone.

All in all I fully agree. Episode 1 is by far a better film. You take away Jar Jar and 3po and its not at all a bad story. The new film might be lacking any irritating characters but it certainly doesn't have a true story like all the other films, no matter how many flaws they all have. I also agree with BB8 being a bit too silly. But I suspect we are one of the few. I actually hate 3PO and Jar Jar equally. I found 3PO to be just as irritating in the originals as Jar Jar is in the prequels and the same comparison definitely fits regarding ewoks and gungans.

I don't think the FX were "bad" in terms of quality, but they made it clear it was a JJ film which I didn't like. As a whole it just didn't feel like Star Wars anymore to me. If Snoke turns out to be just some random ugly guy instead of Plagueis then there will honestly be nothing linking these films to the previous plot in which case I may just pass on episode 8 and 9 entirely.

EDIT: One compliment I will give is the new cast did a good job, Kylo excluded although part of that is bad writing and direction. They were all much more convincing characters than most of the characters in the previous films and I think they all gave good performances. A lot of people say Harrison Ford stole the show but honestly as one of the few actors who was good in the original I think the new kids out-performed him.
 

Tonberry

Inactive Staff
Aug 30, 2010
372
0
0
www.modthegalaxy.com
#11
Tonberry said:
Shame on you Valky.

Honestly I think plotholes is completely justifiable. I haven't read the novelization but I hear it makes a lot of the things in the movies seem even worse. For example it states the empire is under trade restrictions and being monitored heavily by the new republic. Considering that why the hell would they turn a blind eye to them building a super weapon capable of destroying multiple planets at the same time lol? Also under those conditions why does the empire seem to have gotten much more tech'd up compared to the jump from the prequels to the originals in which you could argue in some ways they got lower tech.

I pretty much agree with all of your points Himalayas. The way the original characters interacted with each other was laughable. I felt like they didn't read the script back even once. There is a particular moment (trying not to post any clear spoilers) after a certain dramatic demise where a certain furball is completely ignored in favor of the new cast getting some emotional screen time which made no sense. I can't speak for Snoke, as if he does turn out to be Plagueis it could save the next film for me, but Kylo was by far the weakest and most pathetically developed villain in the franchise. The focus on Vader's deeds scares me about the future. I'm in favor of the expanded universe but clone palpy was a bad call even in the EU, I hope we aren't gonna see an anakin clone. For the locations they could have at least used new planets not obvious clones of  tatooine, hoth and yavin. The forest one may have actually been an area on Yavin 4 but I wasn't really paying attention anymore at that point so I'm guessing it was just another clone.

All in all I fully agree. Episode 1 is by far a better film. You take away Jar Jar and 3po and its not at all a bad story. The new film might be lacking any irritating characters but it certainly doesn't have a true story like all the other films, no matter how many flaws they all have. I also agree with BB8 being a bit too silly. But I suspect we are one of the few. I actually hate 3PO and Jar Jar equally. I found 3PO to be just as irritating in the originals as Jar Jar is in the prequels and the same comparison definitely fits regarding ewoks and gungans.

I don't think the FX were "bad" in terms of quality, but they made it clear it was a JJ film which I didn't like. As a whole it just didn't feel like Star Wars anymore to me. If Snoke turns out to be just some random ugly guy instead of Plagueis then there will honestly be nothing linking these films to the previous plot in which case I may just pass on episode 8 and 9 entirely.

EDIT: One compliment I will give is the new cast did a good job, Kylo excluded although part of that is bad writing and direction. They were all much more convincing characters than most of the characters in the previous films and I think they all gave good performances. A lot of people say Harrison Ford stole the show but honestly as one of the few actors who was good in the original I think the new kids still managed to out-perform him.
 

HelmedRaven

Borrie BoBaka
Moderator
Mar 16, 2014
53
12
8
#13
I'm what you might call a Pre-Disney purist. It sounds so overtly silly to describe myself as that but I feel like I can't formulate any other words for it. I was, and still am a massive fan of the Expanded Universe, and have felt alienated by how Disney has handled the franchise. I am fully aware that the Expanded Universe has some pretty big problems and weirdness to it, especially before 1999. The Thrawn Trilogy seriously set a standard for the Expanded Universe, and retcons helped alleviate some of the dumbness of earlier stories. I still love these stories more than the films themselves, and I was really disappointed that they didn't adapt these stories at all. 

I don't understand their decision making process, however the explanation of 'Because they want more money' is always a valid one, no matter what you think about Disney. I understand that they wanted to wipe the canon to allow their filmmakers more creativity over the series in their films. But they almost immediately went to fill the gaps they created with subpar stories that are Star Wars in name only, changing things so arbitrarily and filling the gaps. I wouldn't mind if Disney's new canon was film alone, much like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but I can't get attached to films that are attached to so much dribble that they want me to learn again. For that reason I don't read into or watch anything Disney made, because I don't want to have two conflicting stories in my head, especially when I am very emotionally attached to one version of it. 

The biggest problem I have is that they are adapting elements of the Legends canon but twisting it in ways that make no sense. Kylo Ren is based off a very prominent character in the EU, but he is so immensely changed when I feel like his original version would've been a more interesting, deeper, and intriguing character. Talking with a friend the other day, I managed to take the story of the Legacy of the Force books, which have a very similar plot to TFA, and adapt it into a film form that follows the same flow as Episode 7. You're welcome to read it here, but beware, there are spoilers in it. 

http://pastebin.com/wLQNEQhR

Certainly there are a lot of things already set in the story for this film, but there was the same for A New Hope too, a lot of stories we hadn't heard about. I took a lot of liberties with the story but kept it as true as I could, trying to play Devil's advocate as someone who might be trying to make the story fresh but still stay true to it. I got inspired to write that adaptation after I heard that in early stages of The Force Awakens, Rey was originally Jaina, and Finn was originally Jacen, the two twins of Han and Leia. I am baffled, personally, why they were changed. You could say it was changed to prevent confusion, but then I just have to point at Kylo Ren. 

I've been pretty passionate about the subject. I would like to think there's more Pre-Disney fans out there that agree with me, but thus far it's been few and far between. There's a lot of unbridled love for The Force Awakens, but there was an insane amount of support and love for The Phantom Menace when it came out too. So I am unsure what to think.