Fixing Belts

Jun 18, 2013
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tarkinswg.com
#1
Would anyone ever like to attempt to undertake the task of fixing the tailor-made belts to adjust to the proper waist size?

This was posted by Tiars on the SWGEmu forums:

"A developer looked into this and did discover that it was a bug. Belts should adjust their diameter based on the character waist settings. This was done correctly for armor belts. The first clothing belt adjusted their diameter based on the character chest settings and this was wrong. This bug seems to have been cut and pasted from clothing belt to clothing belt. To fix this would require a change to all clothing belts. Since the EMU has the problem I suspect that it would be a client side change which would be harder for the EMU to fix.

When you think about it this makes sense. The hula hoops are more noticeable on the female characters since people often make the chest significantly larger than the waist. On make characters the difference is generally not as much and it is hardly noticeable on most characters."

and

"I wish the wayback machine had saved the thread where our discussion on this topic with DevH happened. But It doesn't seem to be one that got archived. I may have a copy of it saved on my other PC, but not sure.

It was not an easy fix, he essentially detailed out why it would be difficult. Now, I don't know if it would be something easier done here than there. It kind of boiled down to the art assets needing to be fixed on each and every version, not something that could be done with a global fix."


Do we have the tools for modifying morph information on mgn files, and if so, are there any modellers looking for a project?
 

Timbab

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#4
Looking into it.

No tools for it and .mgn is a shakey subject, since we can't even work with them at all.

Been hex editing around, trying to understand the chunks.

One female belt doesn't even have a blender for fat/skinny, wth, male version does. 'Sorta' fixed that to more typical SWG standards, so it scales at least, but it doesn't scale correctly yet.

Edit:

Can you give me examples of bad/wrong belts? Screenshots?
 
Jun 18, 2013
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tarkinswg.com
#5
OK...I did some tests & screenshots. I tried the small pocket belt on a female (I went ahead and maxed out the chest, just in case that is the real reason) over various garments.

Over shirt only (a reasonably good fit): http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/stacy_19201325/screenShot0551_zps5bb76311.jpg
Over cargo vest (looks "fat" but actually does scale to the vest diameter): http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/stacy_19201325/screenShot0552_zps7e3029b8.jpg
Over labor jacket (here's an example of the hula-hooping): http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/stacy_19201325/screenShot0553_zps23bc68b7.jpg
Over ubese armor (seems to fit): http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/stacy_19201325/screenShot0554_zpscb5988d1.jpg
Over bone armor (hula hoop): http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/stacy_19201325/screenShot0555_zps588d1d27.jpg
Over composite armor (hula hoop): http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/stacy_19201325/screenShot0556_zps4f58bd52.jpg


So...given the some-of-the-time nature, maybe it's not actually an "easy" fix? Is it just taking the widest diameter value ever used in the "jacket" or "armor" slot and scaling it to that, if there is any jacket or armor present?
 

Timbab

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#6
Thanks for those screenshots, interesting.

I've tested all belts and with just a shirt they seemed sort of fine, but I can see how they're tied to 'flat chest' (it's actually a blend setting in most belts) when I applied replaced floats in one of the chunks with the one from the Mabari, see:


This was on the lowest fat/muscle/chest/height setting.

Some belts have blend settings for jackets, robes, etc, while the armored ones don't. Removing the 'flat chest' blender doesn't seem to achieve anything for whatever reason, but it's not tied to chest size for sure, did those tests already.

This got me curious now, damn it.

Two things, one, there is most likely a scale value in the mesh values, I'd have to find it and change it to a smaller size, so it would fit closer ot the body, but that's a workaround and probably a bunch of work. I still don't see what's radically different in terms of scaling from both the armored belt and the regular one, though it has to be in the .mgn.
 
Jun 18, 2013
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tarkinswg.com
#7
Here's a side-by-side comparison of the small pocket belt with the mabari belt using the same clothing: http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/stacy_19201325/comparison_zps4c69c6d6.jpg

The mabari seems to have a much more "perfect" fit to the character's waist, and you can see in the case of the vest and the ubese jacket, it actually fits UNDER those items of clothing.

If it would be less work, do you think you could explain to me how to make the changes, and what hex editor you use to make them?
 

Timbab

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#8
Yeah that's really interesting, damn it, I'm gonna figure this out even if it takes me a month, typical extreme SOE screwup.

I did manage to solve the extreme hulahoop, I think, but the original belts are still too fat and not perfectly fitting.

Original on the left, modified on the right:




Regular belts had the jacket_belt and robe_belt scaler, which is stupid, it makes already unfitting belts even more extreme. But this doesn't fix the core problem.


I use both tre Explorer and hex workshop to toy around, but you'd need to know what a float and integer is, floats are reversed in the SWG files. It's a lot of guess work and trying to find a needle in a haystack, going at it blindly.
 
Jun 18, 2013
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tarkinswg.com
#9
That does already look vastly better. You took the jacket & robe scalers out on the picture on the right?

Tell me, I've read reference to there being information on mgn files in the wiki, but I can't get it to work, is it down/disabled?
 

Timbab

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#10
Yeah it's down sadly, Davin hasn't put it back up and I don't got a backup, been planning to create a new one for a while, he has the backup of the old information. I'm going at it blindly.

Yes, I took the jacket and robe scaler out on the right, not all belts have them. I'm gonna edit/upload all of them for ya if you want, I need to eat something first though, haven't eaten all day.

If you want to try it yourself anyhow, you can delete the scalers by opening the .mgn and looking for these:


Double check if they're the correct ones by clicking on each of the BLT INFO chunks.

Just delete them by right clicking and delete the FORM that includes the correct BLT INFO.
 

Timbab

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#12
Oh, I forgot, you need to change something in the 0004INFO chunk for it to work.




But, gonna edit all the .mgn's now for that 'fix'.


Edit: You sure? Doubt it'll take too long.

But, if you want to do it yourself, ideally, delete all the blenders except:
blend_muscle (though this isn't even needed, I don't think)
blend_fat
blend_skinny

Gonna do it anyway, I think, unless you upload it later. Going through all the belts and fixing one or two that don't even have blenders.
 
Jun 18, 2013
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tarkinswg.com
#13
That may explain why my game froze when I tried loading up after I modded the first one in :D

If you WANT to do it, by all means, go ahead, I just didn't want to take up any more of your time!

What is/where is the model for the mabari belt, I don't seem to find it in data_skeletal_mesh_00.treappearance/mesh, even though it looks like all the other armors' parts are in there. Is it named something different?
 

Timbab

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#14
Haha, it's all good, half way through already.

Gonna need some testing for them though, removing it all might screw up somewhere with certain clothing, like be half in the other mesh, etc.

Yeah typical SOE again, they named it armor_zam_wesell.


I just hope I can find the real fix without too much hassle in the next few days.
 
Jun 18, 2013
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tarkinswg.com
#15
I see what you mean about the clipping. Here are belts 2 & 3 with various clothing. 3 is pretty high-profile and does clip with the last jacket. Given the hula-hoop alternative, though, I'll still take it. Some belts looking bad with some jackets beats all belts looking bad with all jackets.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/stacy_19201325/comparison2_zpsa6bba4b8.jpg
 

Valkyra

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#16
Semi related, but Timbab have you noticed necklaces in emu seem to not have proper blending with clothing?

For example, I saw a lot of imperial dark jedi wear the imperial medallion with their dark jedi robes, it looks different on emu than it did on live, and I am not sure why...
 

Timbab

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#17
stacy_19201325 said:
I see what you mean about the clipping. Here are belts 2 & 3 with various clothing. 3 is pretty high-profile and does clip with the last jacket. Given the hula-hoop alternative, though, I'll still take it. Some belts looking bad with some jackets beats all belts looking bad with all jackets.

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h395/stacy_19201325/comparison2_zpsa6bba4b8.jpg
Definitely looks better, better than floating asteroid belt around your waist, rofl. I'd love to fix the clipping, but there is not chance. Pretty sure the blend modes are hard coded, so if I give one belt the jacket_blend, then that'll apply to every piece of armor/torso, etc.

Really stupid that they bunched it all together, but it's so typical of them.

Valkyra said:
Semi related, but Timbab have you noticed necklaces in emu seem to not have proper blending with clothing?

For example, I saw a lot of imperial dark jedi wear the imperial medallion with their dark jedi robes, it looks different on emu than it did on live, and I am not sure why...

I never play, so I wouldn't know. Can you gief screenshot, or explain how you mean they don't blend? Floating around neck?

Edit:

Done editing 99% of them, gotta fix belt s07_f really quick, since it has no blend. Utility belt might cause problems, because there are no 'position' values I can use, probably gonna screw with the mesh, so I don't know if it'll work. We'll see.
[hr]
Alright, managed to fix the Utility Belt too, thankfully the wookiee versions had blenders I could use.

I hope I didn't screw up somewhere so that it doesn't crash.

Download Linky


Edit2:

Just did some testing.

Necklaces need position fixing, at least for females. Bandoleers are also iffy as fuck, gonna look into it tomorrow.

Finding the size value would really be it, or I'll need to write a tool to read/edit the stupid endless chunks and find the blend adjust there and fix it.
 
Jun 18, 2013
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tarkinswg.com
#18
I just tried all the belts on my female toon with multiple articles of clothing. I found the following:

Rugged Jacket clips with:
small pocket belt
cartridge belt
multipocket belt
two-pocket belt
utility belt

Casual jacket, simple vest, desert command jacket, pilot's jacket, and reinforced jacket clip with:
majority of low profile belts

Everything clips with ubese jacket, short vest, & spec ops duster.

It seems like in a lot of cases, if they just fit a BIT tighter, they'd fit fully under the jacket. The high profile belts (cartridge belt, multipocket belt, two-pocket belt, utility belt) clip with the least amount of things, and might actually clip more if they were made smaller. They seem to "fit" better on top of most jackets & vests. It's just those few jackets with a really wide hip/waist that they're going to clip with no matter what.
 

Timbab

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#19
Good that you tested it.

Gonna try to fix the sizing issue, probably gonna write a tool to read MGNs and understand them in general. Actually thanks for pushing me to research .MGN, totally needed, haha.

I got Uli on it too now.

Pretty sure I'll be able to figure this out, the actual mesh should be like the .msh, so it's just a matter of understanding how it blends/scales the mesh (pretty sure I know how by now, just gotta see how it does it in reality).
 

DavinFelth

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#20
Timbab said:
Yeah it's down sadly, Davin hasn't put it back up and I don't got a backup, been planning to create a new one for a while, he has the backup of the old information. I'm going at it blindly.
Sorry for the unrelated post but I had no idea anyone had any use for the wiki, at the time I changed hosts it hadn't been edited in a long time and a lot of the info on there was sketchy at best (besides the work Charina put in) and it seemed like it may just be splitting up work on figuring out file types. I do still have the backup though so I'll try and restore it soon. If it doesn't happen just keep poking me, I'll get to it eventually (lazy...). :)