Terraforming and .trn files

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#1
Hi guy's !

I work on my new screenplay, but i didn't can make what i want make. 
I have big problem, the tatooine terrain....
For example :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/231724098546302976/screenShot0000.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/231724181027422208/screenShot0001.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/231724229001871360/screenShot0002.jpg

This terrain is irregular. For textur, i must change  tatooine.trn file ? 
But for terraforming, i don't know where to change that. 

I think we can make a area as https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/231729916373106688/screenShot0003.jpg

Thanks by advance.
 

Timbab

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#2
Long story short, you need to have a .LAY file (Terrain Layer) attached to the Building Object .IFF of that building, which will add rules on what to do with the terrain when it's place.

You can find the existing .LAY files in terrain/ if you want some examples, and/or look at object/building/ files to see which have .LAY's attached to them, most player buildings should have a .LAY attached to them.

I don't have the time to go into detail as editing .LAY files is a tad complex, but someone else might be able to help out if you're having trouble.

Don't open a .LAY file in SIE, it'll lock up your PC as I just found out, apparently a brutal memory leak.

Edit Actually Halyn is right, 3.5.0.3a has a .LAY fix.
 
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#3
Oh, i think too, it's complex.

I can't open a .lay file.
Someone knows a software (free if possible) that can do this?
 

Timbab

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#5
Halyn said:
Sytner released a patch for .lay files locking up SIE.
It locks up on the current dev build and the 3.5.0.3 build from what I've tested.

Edit

Err, you're right, the 3.5.0.3a build has it fixed. Gotta figure out why our dev build is locking up then.

Totor said:
Oh, i think too, it's complex.

I can't open a .lay file.
Someone knows a software (free if possible) that can do this?
No, .LAY is in SWG's IFF file format, it doesn't have any mesh or modeling information.
 
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#6
You don't talk about .LAY file in folder terrain, with SIE ? 

When i search .LAY file, i find this :
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/231848645253660682/cap1.PNG

And for this files, i need other software, my SIE crash all the time.
 

Sytner

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#7
Totor said:
You don't talk about .LAY file in folder terrain, with SIE ? 

When i search .LAY file, i find this :
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/231848645253660682/cap1.PNG

And for this files, i need other software, my SIE crash all the time.
Did you get the latest? There was a hotfix specifically for .lay files in April.
 
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#8
Ok, it's good with new version 3.5.03a april.

But i don't sure is good file for terraforming....

I search terraforming for building but for terrains too.
 

Timbab

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#9
Well, if you want custom changes to the terrain that aren't bound to any object, such as a building, you'll need to edit the .TRN file of the planet.

Same principle as editing a .LAY (It's literally a terrain layer).
 
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#10
Well, i'm a little bit lost.

My project is make, this area flat and make a texture city.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/232133144600510466/screenShot0000.jpg

But i take a SIE for tatooine.trn, i find :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/232133797779341313/trn1.png

I see chunks, but i don't know dispatching on map.

For me this value, it's maybe what i search for color.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/232135266524069888/trn2.png

And for flat place, i see again around chunk "hills".
My problems, i don't know how chunks are dispatching.

Sorry for my english.
 

Timbab

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#11
Well what you're looking into is basically terrain editing which is a bit more complicated than adjusting/attaching terrain modification layers to buildings so they're placed on a level environment.

I can't/don't want to get into how to do that as it's a complicated process, somewhat, with just SIE. The super short form of what you'd want to do is create a layer with boundary properties for the area at a certain location that has properties that affect the terrain. But again, not gonna get into how to do that, unless someone else wants to.

Unsure what you want/mean with color, the Display Color in those chunks aren't relevant to the game world I'm pretty certain.

Ultimately for terrain modifications, your best bet is to wait for Sytner's World Builder, or pay attention to this thread in the meantime.

P.S. Looks like that template for that chunk in 'trn2.png' is wrong/broken.
 
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#12
Like I said in my pm, applying the template and just looking at the inside structure of the terrain file is the beginning.

I have been reading the patent word for word for a couple of years now, and only after doing that, and poking around for a few weeks without rest...  was I able to understand everything inside the file.

It takes patience, even to figure out how to do a flat pad for a city, which was initially my only goal.

Once you open up the terrain file and see the information in the templates, it just becomes trial and error to figure out what it all means. Just start looking for things you can recognize, like texture and Shader calls, or waypoints down in the layer stack that you know. It is a somewhat flexible file type also, allows for a bit of redundancy, and after you get used to it, it's actually hard to corrupt.
 
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#13
I work very slowly but i begin to understand.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/184384342431236096/236972107295096842/screenShot0000.jpg


Test with other map 09 and 10.
I have a little question, i can make layer for single point; but on the tatooine terrain with their ditch and their mountain, i don't know if it's make with heightmap or with layer ?


On my first project, i don't find how to remove rock on my layers. I make a AFSN but it's not enough.
Anyone have a idea ?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/237158040237899776/screenShot0003.jpg
 
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#14
There ya go!  Here is a suggestion. Take one of those unused terrains and simply wipe all the layers out but one or two that you know exactly what they do. Then build from there.  

Part of what's difficult in understanding these files is simply navigating somebody else's structure. There are actually multiple ways to accomplish some of this terrain building.

There is no height map. You will find many of the broad brushstrokes in that first stack of layers on most of the developed planets. If something is vexing you, chances are it's crammed in a layer within a layer within a layer up there and overriding whatever you are trying to do.

Also I see you are using NGE. There are some affectors in those terrain files that aren't available in the old ones! Have fun, keep trying.
 

Lasko

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#15
Totor said:
On my first project, i don't find how to remove rock on my layers. I make a AFSN but it's not enough.
Anyone have a idea ?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/237158040237899776/screenShot0003.jpg
Hi,

the pic link seems to be broken but i'm gonna take a guess at this......

On Tat, the ditches are contained in the layers. They are set with a BPLN (Boundry Polyline), which sets width, length, feathering etc if memory serves. Each has an ASCN (Affector Shader Constant), that calls the darker sand colour and a Affector Height Constant (AHCN), to set the depth.

Some rocks are named in the FGRP family..... Look at the rock you want to remove and see if you can find it in the /appearance folder with SIE. On Tat, again they are in the layers, but some are also placed in the snapshot file, depending on what where etc.

Trick is finding them nested within the layers if that's where they live.

Could always try removing all the snapshot items first, if they're still there then their hidden in the trn file layers somewhere.
 
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#16
Thanks for your answers. It's most light with your informations.
I'm not familiar with this affectors.
I try to clean all layers, but often i come to crash my planet :D 
There are 3 layers most important in tatooine.trn, i think,  and i try to remove all others.....

And with this picture, it's better :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/184384342431236096/237161356334333952/screenShot0003.jpg

If i want to change my texture in my BCIR for my project, i must add ACRF for call in my library SGRP texture ID 2 ? I already make test with just ACRH but i mistake somewhere.

Don't know if just me, but i have lot of difficulties to understand global operation of terraformation on this game. When i see all ditches on tatooine, it's very impressive with so little lines.

On this layers, when i see FFRA, it's for color patchwork only ?

Finally i must meditate again, again and work.
Thanks for all.
 

Lasko

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#17
Just having a quick look at the boulders on Tat.

Looks like the are in the FGRP (No.s 3, 4 and 13). They are collideable so will be in there.

To change a surface shader, you could use a ASCN - AffectorShaderConstant to define the shader within your circle and call your desired surface from SGRP. Again, have only just started playing with the ColorRamps. Try both ways and see what happens.

Gonna revisit my info on the ditches as I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Will let you know what i find.... Might not be today as I have a lot on in RL for a couple of days.

FFRA....... Arrrggghhh! lol

Filter Fractals..... Kinda into uncharted territory there. Not so much a grey area..... More of a big black hole atm lol. More research needed there on my part before I can offer any help. Maybe Sytner or Timbab can shed some light there:)

Keep learning though and we'll get there in the end:)
 

Sytner

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#18
Filter fractal itself is simple, it just refines your affected area based on the noise result of a fractal family.

Here's an example in the world builder where I've used a filter fractal to colour some areas purple.



Combine this with boundaries and you have a way of making more interesting selections which you can then colour/displace/texture.

The difficult part without an editor is knowing what your fractal family looks like and how to modify it to achieve what you want...
 
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#19
@Sytner : If you search a beta tester, we are here.  :D

I make something wrong on my boundary :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/237975200585613312/layer_colline.PNG

I make boundary, heightconstant and shader, but i forget something because i see that :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227548173344833536/237975762072764419/screenShot0004.jpg
 
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#20
Sytner said:
The difficult part without an editor is knowing what your fractal family looks like and how to modify it to achieve what you want...
I just envision fine control knobs on a synthesizer - even the exact same parameters, shaping a waveform.

The tatooine.trn is the best one I've found so far, has a good collection of MFAMs...    I have not had success in copying and pasting them, so I'm assuming (also from the sections of the patent I've read) that the fractals are coded into each file specifically(?) - who knows though, I did that before I knew half of what I do today. I probably didn't set the family number or something...

The MTGClient, by the way, is a GOD SEND for quick terrain editing. I can check any change I make within seconds of hitting 'save'